Grenzland-Zine/issue07/survey

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.H1
Survey: High Level Adventures
.PP
Thinking about content for this issue I decided to run a survey about
.I "High Level Adventures" .
It ran from August 24th until December 15th 2025 and had 22 participants over all (one participant answered twice). It's purely descriptive statistics but I think some interesting hypothesis might be generated from the dataset, and some might even draw some conclusions.
.H2
For How long have you been playing role playing games?
.LP
.PSPIC charts/howlong.eps
.PP
As you can see the majority of contributors are seasoned players. 77% of contributes have been playing 20 years and up. I find this difficult to interpret though, as I suspect a substantial sampling bias. It would have been interesting to ask for everyone's age too, but we don't have that data. But assuming that quite a few of us are in their 40ies or 50ies, it's no wonder that the majority has been gaming for a long time already. On the other hand, younger gamers might have been afraid to take part in the survey for subjective lack of experience?
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.H2
What is your stance toward old school gaming in general?
.LP
.PSPIC charts/rulespreferences.eps
.PP
Is this a little surprise? 36% voted for a fun game in the first place. NSR / Modern OSR games, Retro Clones and Original Editions are equally distributed at 18%. My expectation was that the original TSR Editions would be ranking higher, but overall I think this is a quite wholesome picture. Edition wars seem to be a thing of the past. Running heavily house ruled games appears to be the exception, and the question about Classic Traveller was kind of a joke, but I'm happy someone chose it.
.PP
The message to GMs: just pick your favourite rules set and run a great game! 
.H2
Your character has reached level 10, what now?
.LP
.PSPIC charts/level10.eps
.PP
The majority of 73% declared to be stalwart heroes made for something better than level 10. Or is this only wishful thinking?
.H2
What was the highest character level you've ever played?
.LP
.PSPIC charts/levelsplayed.eps
.PP
So what do we have here? Something like a normal distribution, but notably skewed towards the lower levels. The distribution averages at around level 12, but has a notable standard deviation of 8 levels. Playing characters up to around 8th level seems to rather be the norm with a majority of 32%. Around 18% never exceed level 6 and having characters of level 11 and higher becomes increasingly more unlikely. As one would expect. Let's also acknowledge that 
.I Grenzland
has delivered scientific proof that
.I "Immortal Characters"
have actually been played. I wonder if this character has been played up all the way from level one, though. And if that be the case, does it's player have an active memory of the french revolution or not?
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.LP
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.KE
.H2
At which character levels do you enjoy the game the most?
.LP
.PSPIC charts/preferedlevel.eps
.PP
Again, here is something wholesome to take note of: "level doesn't matter": 32%. I suppose it's same gist as "I don't care much about the rules as long as the game is fun". On the other hand another 36% checked that they enjoy the game is most enjoyable around levels 4 - 6, a range of levels I have heard being mentioned as the sweet spot. 18% voted for levels 7-10, and only 9% expressed their favour for levels 11 to 14. Interestingly, no one checked levels 15 or higher as being their favourites. The average of this distribution is 6.8 with a standard deviation of 3.3 levels. It's interesting to observe how the average here is decidedly lower then the highest level of experience, which were reported above.
.H2
If you prefer retiring your character at level 10, can you tell us why?
.PP
This question was asking for some textual input by the contributors. I took the liberty to correct obvious typos. Everything else is given verbatim.
.IP Anonymous: 
High power levels make for a different story. I'm less interested in superhero fantasy.
.IP Nils: 
I think it depends heavily on the kind of game you are playing, but as you can have your own lands with castles at that level, it would be an option to retire the character at that point. And letting him have a more supporting or managing role in a kind of domain play and start a new character to go into the dungeons again and do the dirty work.
.IP Anonymous: 
Not really, just can't imagine staying alive that long in an adventure game!
.IP JFS: 
I don't prefer it, but depending on the campaign it can make sense story-wise.
.IP Bodo: 
I like the tension and high stakes associated with low and mid-level play in osr games.
.IP Kyonshi:
You basically have it made at level 10
.H2
If you're thriving for ever higher levels? What's better in those lofty heights?
.IP BohemiaSpielkunst:
Ending the game because the character reaches a certain level feels arbitrary. I am fine with a character retiring or dying because of age etc, but level?
.IP Anonymous:
high level targets and more adventure freedom
.IP Settembrini:
Variety, Options, Action
.IP Nils:
I mean, you are completely overpowered at that point and I think that can be good fun too. Especially as the scope shifts from dungeons to a grander, world spanning scope where you fight armies or even gods alone.
.IP Blackrazor:
Higher levels mean more content to explore and more effectiveness (leading to longer exploration).
.IP nono:
I'd like to try domain play for once.
.IP Tintenteufel:
Domain Play
.IP JFS:
More power! More spells, more survivability, more assets such as magic items or strongholds/domains, and more influence in the campaign world.
.IP Kiki:
I just don't want to part with my character.
.IP Carsten:
I can continue to play the Char I like and started to love over years.
.IP MadMoses:
It‘s not better just different. Retiring is just no fun.
.IP Preuk:
Level 8 spells are awesome, level 9 are just OP and need heavy support from DM. So I'd say after level 15, game is pretty much over, time to retire!
.IP fastfox:
Monsters and Planes I haven't seen.
.IP grannus:
The campaign goes on and with more resources, the threats will be more interesting.
.IP Camo:
The story goes on. Why end it prematurely?
.IP "Peter F.:"
Actually, I don't know that there's anything that's "better" it's just that I like futzing around for bigger spells, bigger magic items, and bigger monsters. It's fun to slaughter a beholder for a change, not just the 57th evil goblin shaman and his 2d6 skeletons.
.H2
What even is a high level adventure in terms of average character level?
.LP
.PSPIC charts/whatshighlevel.eps
This one is interesting, especially in context with the earlier questions. 41% voted for levels 11 and higher, and 41% said levels 7 and higher. Only 14% would deem anything beginning at level 15 high level. The average is at 9.6. So if we were looking for the answer of what would make a high level adventure in the sense of the title of this issue, it's 
.B 
10 and up 
.R
in terms of numerical levels. Many sound reasons have been given as to why adventures of this level might be attractive and exciting, adventures some three levels lower than this have been voted to be most fun. Maybe we need more
.I good
high level adventures? 
.H2
What would make an adventure high level in terms of challenges, setting, and story elements?
.PP
Maybe this is the more important question.
.IP BohemiaSpielkunst:
More politics! The Heroes are outstanding characters in the world. Their influence should be visible.
.IP Anonymous:
I'm not the right person for this question. :)
.IP Anonymous:
more complex naratives and rich characters (the longer you are in a story line the stronger the background story becomes
.IP Settembrini:
hordes if enemies, strategic challenges, extreme use and interaction of spells and abilities
.IP Nils:
I think a grander continent or world spanning setting where you need to save whole kingdoms or the planet itself by fighting against grand foes like dragons, whole armies or even the gods themselves.
.IP Blackrazor:
In AD&D, there are plenty of monsters that are appropriate challenges for high level characters ... use of these and proper outlay of treasure (risk v reward) signifies the level.
.IP nono:
Basically, a high level adventure has superhero as characters. So any challenge that can't be brute forced by ordinary people, say something that requires divination or supernatural movement.
.IP Tintenteufel:
Strongholds, Warfare etc.
.IP JFS:
Powerful enemies such as dragons or demons, upper-class social play, severity of consequences. 
.IP Bodo:
PCs actions are more likely to affect or reshape the setting through domain play or getting into conflict with high level NPCs. 
.IP Preuk:
Game world is broken by players. DM must use extra planar or similar contexts to provide decent challenge to the players 
.IP fastfox:
different plane of existence, leading armies and diplomacy with kings
.IP Anonymous:
Stakes far beyond the adventurer's home lands
.IP grannus:
Domainplay,  kingdoms, greater evils
.IP Camo:
Wrong question. Levels are more or less meaningless, don't give them too much weight. The story is the real thing... and why stop a story in the middle?
.IP Kyonshi:
Bigger monsters and interdimensional shenanigans
.IP "Peter F.:"
If it's a "campaign" thing then affecting the world, or at least the politics/nations/cults, is fun. If it's not, then it's just fun to go up against bigger baddies.
.H2
What was the most memorable high level adventure you've played in?
.PP
.IP BohemiaSpielkunst:
I can’t remember a particular campaign, but I enjoyed moments where we have become living legends in a fantasy setting - which also meant a lot of high level parties wanted to kill us, because we made a lot a lot enemies. Having a character with such a track record makes the game world feel alive.
.IP MadMoses:
Arden Vul
.IP Anonymous:
Grenzland ["Yay!" Ed.]
.IP Settembrini:
Final bits of Age of Worms
.IP Nils:
I dont think I ever did, all my PCs died before reaching high level.
.IP Blackrazor:
Q1: Queen of the Demonweb Pits
.IP JFS:
I haven't played in any so far.
.IP Carsten:
Arden Vul 
.IP Preuk:
Evil priest/taxidermist in a whacky 3ed evil campaign. Ended up fusing with Myrkul's essence and ascend to divine. 
.IP fastfox:
that one time as my lich (wizard) became alive again (for real!)
.IP Anonymous:
Arden Vul
.IP grannus:
None
.IP "Peter F.:"
Probably that time when we went up against the Grandfather of Assassins in Bloostone Pass. I was playing a drow figher/magic-user/thief and had a great time killing 10+ orcs in a single round. Of course then we got hit with a meteor storm.
.H2
What was the most memorable high level adventure you've run as a DM?
.IP Settembrini:
Guardians of the World Chalice / Against the Eternal Empire (DIY)
.IP Nils:
I ran castle ravenloft as a haloween oneshot with 4 players at level 8
.IP Blackrazor:
Ship of Fate or Dragonwrack
.IP Bodo:
A crystal fantasy Adnd2e campaign in the lates 90s
.IP MadMoses:
The last part of Barrowmaze.
.IP Preuk:
Never had the chance to run one to high level yet...
.IP grannus:
Kingmaker
.H2
What's your favourite high level module? Even if you've never run or played it.
.IP MadMoses:
Arden Vul
.IP Anonymous:
Original D&D
.IP Settembrini:
My own, see above, but second is Dream House of the Nether Prince.
.IP Nils:
I am still fascinated with Tomb of Horrors and want to GM it at some point.
.IP Blackrazor:
Q1: Queen of the Demonweb Pits
.IP Tintenteufel:
Bloodstone Path
.IP JFS:
No idea. 
.IP Carsten:
Arden Vul 
.IP Preuk:
Not a big fan of classic modules ;)
.IP "Peter F.:"
For some strange reason I like the basic IDEA of Chris Perkin's "The Lich-Queen's Beloved" but of course it's a bit strange, maybe even "unrealistic" to invade the palace of an almost-god and maybe get to her unnoticed. Vlakth cares!
.H2
If you mentioned a most memorable high level adventure or a favourite module, what's great about it?
.IP "MadMoses (about Arden Vul):"
It's huge and never boring.
.IP "Anonymous (about OD&D as a rules set):"
simplicity => leaves a lot of space to fantasy
.IP Settembrini:
Dream House is good as set-piece for high levels, but only in DIY can you truly leverage the epic abilities of the PCs.
.IP "Blackrazor (about Q1):"
It is the first and only module to tap into what a truly high level adventure can and should look like, with a dynamic environment, extra-planar weirdness, and demonic godlings and their minions to confront. It has flaws, but no other module has come as close to scratching the potential of truly high level play... all true “high level” adventures must be judged in comparison.
.IP "Tintenteufel (about Bloodstone Path):"
Orcus, warfare
.IP Preuk:
Revisiting old foes and feel the change in power.
.H2
How do you even end up with a high level character?
.LP
.PSPIC charts/howtostart.eps
.PP
Pretty much as expected, 64% voted for starting at level 1 and playing up all the way. 27% deemed it o.k., to roll up characters at some pre-defined level. 9% had other thoughts, see below. Notably no one voted for pregenerated high level characters, which is puzzling to me since I figure this to be the norm at convention games.
.H2
If you ticked "something else", what would it be?
.IP Nils:
All of the above is absolutely working, of course the best way would be to play them from level 1 but as that is often difficult as the Characters will probably die before even reaching those levels
.IP Blackrazor:
Ideally, characters should be played up from 1st level, but pre-gens from the DM are certainly possible and necessary when needing to fill out an adventuring party for some legendary undertaking. “Organically grown” PCs will always matter more to (and create deeper bonds with) their players, but I would hesitate to exclude someone from high level play just because they have not had the time and energy necessary to grow their own.
.IP Preuk:
With old school games, always start at level 1. For others, I feels it's ok to skip to something like level 5 to skip low level grind.
.H2
At what pace should characters level up?
.PP
The majority (62%) answered that "level doesn't matter, it depends entirely on XP gained and the DM should not care about this".
I feel this speaks to the impartiality a DM should have. A wholesome stance once more.
Another 24% voted for "about every three sessions", while the answers "every other session", "about every five sessions" and "story based, after any significant milestone or story arc" received 5% of the votes respectively. No one voted in favour of "every session" or "about every ten sessions. 
.H2
How should gaining levels work?
.PP
No big surprises here:
.IP "9 (41%):"
at the end of a session
.IP "4 (18%):"
levels are gained whenever the XP threshold is reached, like in a computer game
.IP "4 (18%):"
characters need training to gain levels (like in AD&D)
.IP "3 (14%):"
something else
.IP "2 (9%):"
after a good night's sleep (in game)
.H2
If you ticked "something else", what would it be?
.IP MadMoses:
I'm currently trying the AD&D way with time and money required for levelling, and I like it as a money sink, but it seems really difficult to get enough funds in the lower levels and is again pretty meaningless in the higher levels where you will have a lot of gold anyway. In the future, I might try an approach where it is cheaper for lower levels but more expensive for higher levels (e.g. 1000 gp per old level at the beginning and then increasing the per level cost).
When the character is in reasonable safety. I like the training requirement of AD&D but less strict leveling requirements are okay, too.
.IP Blackrazor:
Usually at the end of an adventure (when the PC has a chance for rest and reflection). Many times this will coincide with the end of a session. However, with regard to PCs leveling up after being energy drained, I allow immediate leveling with regard to regaining 
.I lost
levels. Training times are only important as a means to artificially extend campaign length... I generally do not use them except in cases of switching classes (for example, with dual-classed characters).
.H2
XP for gold?
.PP
I guess this is settled. What did you expect?!
.IP "16 (76%):"
Hell yeah!
.IP "4 (19%):"
I don't care
.IP "1 (5%):"
I prefer story based XP
.IP "0 (0%):"
XP by GM fiat
.H2
How about the DM assigning levels?
.PP
As far as I know the very first level ups were simply assigned by
.I
Dave Arneson
.R
in the early Blackmoor campaign of 1971. So in a way, that's the ancient school way. I did expect a much clearer vote saying "no way!", but that's not how it turned out, and I'll deliberately keep it a secret as to who said what.
.IP "7 (33%):"
No way! That's not how these games work!
.IP "7 (33%):"
I'm not sure about this.
.IP "7 (33%):"
Yes, if it makes sense in the game and the group agrees, why not?
.H2
What's your favourite setting for a high level adventure?
.PP
Prospective module writers, take a good look at this list:
.IP "11 (50%):"
the nine hells
.IP "11 (50%):"
the abyss
.IP "10 (45%):"
the deepest dungeon
.IP "10 (45%):"
the weirdest plane of existence
.IP "8 (36%):"
the bloody battle field
.IP "8 (36%):"
olympus, valhalla or wherever those gods dwell
.IP "7 (32%):"
the beginning of all time
.IP "7 (32%):"
the strangest, highest dimension
.IP "6 (27%):"
the limbo
.IP "6 (27%):"
outer space
.IP "5 (23%):"
something else
.IP "4 (18%):"
the far far future
.IP "4 (18%):"
another galaxy
.H2
If you ticked "something else" what would it be?
.IP BohemiaSpielkunst:
A huge city of kingdoms
.IP Blackrazor:
I have transported high level AD&D characters into Boot Hill (western), Gamma World, “modern” Earth, and the Marvel Superheroes game. Transport to a non-magical, alternate adventure (like our Earth) is an oft-used trope of high level gaming, forcing players to learn new skills outside their normal comfort zones.
.IP Nono:
The dark side of the Moon, of course!
.IP JFS:
The higher strata of the campaign world, such as royal courts, remote landscapes or the Underrealm.
.IP MadMoses:
All of the above. Liches.
.IP Camo:
Depends on the setting... but every setting works.
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.H2
Let's finish with your favourite High Level "Monster": which one and why?
.PP
This question wasn't meant to yield numerical results, but it turned out it did:
.TS
center;
cici
lc.
Monster	Votes
Dragons (including Dragon turtles)	7
High Level Spell Casters, incl. Liches	4
Enemy Kingdoms and Armies	2
Tarrasque	2
Beholder	2
Mind Flayer	1
Vampires	1
Daemon princes	1
Aboleths	1
Minor Deity	1
.TE
.IP BohemiaSpielkunst:
A powerful fraction, which is running things behind the scene and has noted you as a worthy opponent.
.IP MadMoses:
The Beholder is a classic for a reason.
Liches are iconic.
.IP Anonymous:
Legacy Dragons
.IP Settembrini:
Mind Flayers who can time travel.
.IP Nils:
It's the Dragon Turtle. I just like the idea of a dragon that lives underwater and takes tribute from ships and even keeps their territory somewhat safe for the boats in exchange. And it is also my favorite monster overall.
.IP Blackrazor:
The red dragon is pretty iconic and puts the fear of death in most PCs of
.I any
level (as it should)... it also provides high level reward with its tempting hoard of treasure (as it should). Demon princess like Demogorgon are great, but giving them reasons to appear on the prime plane is tough, and they should be nigh unbeatable on their home plane; this makes them tricky to use, despite their lovely abilities.
.IP Anonymous:
Fully-grown dragon for sure. Dragons just kick ass.
.IP nono:
I quite like liches and vampires, but this can change from week to week.
.IP Tintenteufel:
mighty dragon, because: fantasy
.IP JFS:
I like liches and high-level spellcasters. And I'd like to meet a dragon one day. Whole armies to fight make nice high-level "monsters" as well.
.IP Kiki:
Dragon!
.IP Bodo:
A Lich - because they are deliciously creepy and frightening 
.IP Preuk:
The Tarrasque, obviously :D
.IP fastfox:
the remants of the Worldsoul of the Eternal Battlefield and its form as a gigantic serpent of skulls and bones
.IP Anonymous:
The Tarrasque because it's a big giant middle finger.
.IP grannus:
Aboleths because of their alien nature are they good as grey eminences.
.IP Camo:
enemy kingdoms
.IP Kyonshi:
Some sort of minor deity
.IP "Peter F.:"
Beholder. And if you want to make it a real challenge, make it more than one with a high-level human wizard and his entourage. Can't stand dragons though.
.PP
So there you have it: in a nutshell High Level Adventures are around level 10 and up, have complex challenges including mass combat and political strife and lead into the abyssal dungeons of the nine hells and against the hordes of the dragon lich. Well, that last part sounds more like level 15 to me.
.Au lkh
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